00:00:03: Welcome to deep dive space tech from Space Access to Earth applications.

00:00:08: Your business, investment and technology podcast by DWR ECO in cooperation with Mission Homebound hosted by David

00:00:16: Wardman.

00:00:22: I'm very happy to welcome Daria Stepanoa another edition of our Deep Dive Space Tech.

00:00:29: she is CEO and co-founder of Airmo.

00:00:32: Hi Daria Hello, it's very great to be here.

00:00:35: Yes!

00:00:36: It is great to have you on the show because space tech companies, we call them in particular with very close relationship of our core industries which have been talking to the audience for a couple years already.

00:00:57: Meaning clean-tech because you use Space Tech to observe certain emissions on Earth right?

00:01:04: Maybe tell us few sentences about what do and then deep dive into more details?

00:01:10: Yeah, definitely.

00:01:11: Hermomission is to bring transparency into climate monitoring and our first task on that way is to track methane emissions who help on one side mitigate the huge impact of the climate of unreported unobserved methane leakages.

00:01:29: On the other hand we're helping energy industry effectively decarbonize And save the product lost in liquids.

00:01:39: All right.

00:01:39: Well, before we move into what kind of technologies you use and what business model actually have for your clients is why it's so important to monitor methane?

00:01:52: What the difference between normal CO₂ emissions and why are in these other emissions tracking either?

00:02:00: Very good question!

00:02:02: Methane on one side is responsible for a third temperature rise the heavier global warming potential, it's eighty six times more powerful than CO₂ in terms of a warm-in effect.

00:02:15: And second side I think is cost efficiency.

00:02:18: Methane leakages most of the time especially energy infrastructure occurring due to linkages and venting to flaring events that can be mitigated.

00:02:29: So the mitigation component around methane is easy, you just plug a leakage and close the vent.

00:02:35: You need updates on an infrastructure To put excess of gas back in work Back in compressor to produce electricity Comparing with the mitigation of CO₂ way cheaper and more affordable.

00:02:51: The problem with methane, you don't know where it's leaking from.

00:02:55: so the thing is invisible.

00:02:56: gas requires currently quite complex monitoring systems that make the whole monitoring very expensive economically non-sustainable.

00:03:07: So in our solution we help energy industry to spot methane at a fraction of costs Compared to existing systems.

00:03:15: Yeah,

00:03:16: well so just have a better understanding of where are the potential leakages coming from in the methane value chain?

00:03:26: You said it's quite hard or has been quite hard in the past.

00:03:29: but Where is the most leakage coming from right at the beginning when gas is produced?

00:03:35: Is that while transporting it some sort let's say dissemination through the pipeline, or is it why being burned at the client side producing energy?

00:03:48: So where are them theoretically most leakages coming from.

00:03:53: It's a very good question.

00:03:54: there no direct answer to that.

00:03:56: like studies by different organizations around we actually think when the most of me thing he's come in from talking about energy infrastructure super meter events off course with upstream, I would put it at the first place.

00:04:12: On the other side if the easiest mitigation part stays with downstream packaging of source storages compresses stations and so on while that biggest impact from the fact of mitigating volume of methane is upstream The easiest in most cost-effective ways to monitor the full upstream downstream and also midstream, also biplanes.

00:04:36: And you said it has been difficult in the past.

00:04:38: when we come to your solution in a second but how has this being tracked so far?

00:04:44: So what other more conventional ways to track methane leakages?

00:04:49: or have they just not been tracked at all?

00:04:51: It's been tracked with different time scales with different technologies.

00:04:55: Most of the monitoring services have been manual, so even today there are people walking by the pipelines... People like with sniffer devices or a hang-hole device that takes weeks and weeks off manual inspection for handhold devices.

00:05:13: People involved has being in industry standard.

00:05:17: remote sensing technology that decrease Deliver the more cost-effective services have been recently introduced, especially with an airborne sensing.

00:05:30: Yeah we have great opportunities with short flights, short campaigns cover large territories and large pipelines.

00:05:38: Going from manual inspection is something that makes sense.

00:05:42: So

00:05:43: Manor has been in the past, then now Moore's going into airborne and airborne means little airplanes helicopters drones all of the above.

00:05:54: or what is the most effective way to do it airborne?

00:05:57: Yeah depends on the distances Of course.

00:06:02: In our case we're flying drone sensors That cover up to a hundred kilometers per one flight.

00:06:07: Plains can cover up to a thousand kilometers per one flight, and here depends on the customer needs.

00:06:11: On the length of the pipeline or distribution of assets.

00:06:16: some customers have very localized infrastructure.

00:06:21: Some of our customers have infrastructure very distributed among large territories.

00:06:27: Here we together with customers plan the campaigns that make them more sense for them.

00:06:33: Okay And you're using sensors.

00:06:36: So what kind of sensors are able to detect these leakages?

00:06:41: Right, so we built our own sensors and actually started with a hard one.

00:06:46: We started with the satellite sensor then decided also participate in airborne meeting, monitoring.

00:06:53: We built very unique expertise in the team both in active and passive sensing technology our... The most like working horse at the moment is a force wave infrared push-broom spectrometer as a very complex optical device that will also be launching on this satellite system next year.

00:07:13: But we also built active sensing devices with DDLAS sensors, LiDAR sensors that are able to pinpoint me saying the high precision that passive device.

00:07:28: Okay

00:07:28: so it's basically visual or is it also through order and other ways of detecting mixtures?

00:07:36: It's a spectroscopy!

00:07:38: Basically absorption lines of methane in the spectrum where methane has, in spectrometers is one point six micron.

00:07:49: we measure light, absorption lights.

00:07:52: So it's a light and visual right?

00:07:54: Yeah And so you use the same sensors on drones and airplanes like you also do on satellites.

00:08:00: or Do they actually differ

00:08:02: On their planes?

00:08:03: Build like we build the space representative instruments one on side to test where upcoming face instrument in real world.

00:08:12: On the drones, We had two miniaturized sensors further for them to fit the drone to meet their duration of flight requirements as well.

00:08:21: so We try to make them as representative possible and mutualize them depending on the carrier.

00:08:25: Okay, and now let's move into your core expertise on satellites.

00:08:30: so what is the benefit of using satellites for censoring these images?

00:08:36: These leakages opposed to drones or airplanes?

00:08:42: Yeah very good question.

00:08:43: as a satellite We have a unique view on the world being launched in specific orbits.

00:08:50: In this couple of five years, Satellite will be passing any spots within a week.

00:08:57: Satellites are able to cover any place with pretty much zero manual support.

00:09:03: only operator Uploading the scheduler in this satellite is the only thing that's left.

00:09:12: So comparing to airborne sensing, it's incredibly cost-effective for run campaigns with a satellite.

00:09:17: there are no manual needs and you don't need to travel to another country.

00:09:20: but satellites can see any place on the planet within very short period of time.

00:09:28: observation scope for this satellite is also five years, the duration lifetime of the satellites.

00:09:34: Launching our own satellite will have a five-years up front to monitor emissions globally with weekly revisit rate in any area on the planet.

00:09:45: Okay

00:09:45: and the observation quality?

00:09:48: Is it the same or even better or slightly worse than what you could observe from much closer drone airplane visibility sensors?

00:10:00: Yeah,

00:10:01: that's a trade-off.

00:10:03: A satellite flies around five hundred kilometers away from the target.

00:10:07: of course the sensitivity of measurement drops.

00:10:10: with satellites we will be able to see only large leakages.

00:10:14: but yeah it is a trade off.

00:10:16: for small leakages, certain type of infrastructure monitoring drones will still be needed.

00:10:22: But what we are very optimistic at the moment is that we occupy all different heights from monitoring drone planes and satellites.

00:10:30: so from several meters to targets to yeah five hundred kilometers through target We were able deliver this comprehensive view on emissions for different types of infrastructure for our clients.

00:10:42: but they actually need Okay

00:10:45: downsize to that, but it makes more cost-efficiently.

00:10:48: As I said can you tell us a bit around the regulatory requirements or why clients are actually doing this?

00:10:59: Is there specific need for it?

00:11:02: very close up with drones and is enough.

00:11:06: just

00:11:12: So, first of all there are regulations on methane monitoring that currently is strengthening.

00:11:18: Humane regulation for instance sets the rules from monitoring time scale sensitivity scale for the monitoring as well depending as a reporting part.

00:11:34: Different methodologies, different technologies should be used at the most precise level.

00:11:40: one part of regulation enforces down to one gram per hour in detection threshold.

00:11:47: that's something our drone systems can comply with.

00:11:49: for the reconciliation and side-level assessment satellites are recommended for exactly monitoring of the supermarket events and semi-continuous monitoring.

00:12:02: So on one side, yeah regulations are there.

00:12:04: regulation is strengthening, regulations that definitely pushing their industry forward.

00:12:09: On the other side economics is something that customers also appreciate.

00:12:13: comparison methane is a gas.

00:12:16: it's natural gas It can be sold.

00:12:18: so instead of losing its in the leakages.

00:12:21: If effectively monitored, if cost-effectively monitored our customers are incentivized to keep it in the pipeline and infrastructure.

00:12:30: The two angles around problem because regulation gives a push but with right price tag on monitoring our customer's economic incentivize too to run the campaigns as well.

00:12:42: Okay, we will talk a bit more about market and price points in few minutes but before that I would like understand how is your technology setup?

00:12:53: If you say that you use satellites are these your own satellites or third party satellites?

00:13:02: maybe can walk us through how your technology set up.

00:13:08: So our expertise is in remote sensing technologies, in optical systems and processing for the complex optical systems.

00:13:17: Currently we're using public satellite data.

00:13:19: so there are several governmental satellites like Copernicus for example that deliver free data access.

00:13:27: We use...we process those.

00:13:30: We launch on our own proprietary satellite next year that we're currently developing.

00:13:37: We are now focusing on Satellite, the satellite bus platform where you have a great partner and in charge of delivering the whole process in stack for this instrument.

00:13:50: Okay so just one second.

00:13:53: So right now you use open data through Copernicus.

00:14:00: Do they already have the right sensors up there?

00:14:04: I don't know, cross-reference other data.

00:14:07: How do you make sure that your data is unique to track methane leakages through existing sensors and existing routes of a Copernicus satellite?

00:14:20: A Copernicus is capable monitoring methane leakage around one ton per hour.

00:14:27: so these are really big huge emissions.

00:14:31: With our system we'll be able to track down to fifty kilograms per hour, so there's a big difference between while comparing with the goal is to map regional level emissions that why the detection threshold is so high.

00:14:44: also the pixel size in case of Sentinel.

00:14:47: In our case We were focusing on their asset levels.

00:14:51: So much smaller scene Much more precise sensitivity as well.

00:14:57: Okay, so currently this is the upgrade you're going to go into with your own satellite.

00:15:04: So it will be a bit more precise on your data.

00:15:07: right and the existing data of Copernicus that are just for free.

00:15:11: do we have to pay them?

00:15:12: How does that currently work?

00:15:14: Yeah there's... The data was for free.

00:15:16: It counts as a bit of delay which in case of our satellites would also be able to minimize.

00:15:23: but yeah the data comes from free And everyone who has capacity build expertise in processing algorithms, can also analyze it.

00:15:29: Okay

00:15:30: and so your new satellites you just said will be launched next year right?

00:15:35: Will there be this one satellite with a constellation building up of how many satellites?

00:15:42: but do you need and how much are planning?

00:15:46: We're planning to deploy twelve.

00:15:48: we have second satellite.

00:15:50: deployment strategy is already on track.

00:15:54: Yeah, twelve in total to get two daily or visa trades on any spot of the globe.

00:16:00: We don't need more than twelve.

00:16:02: Okay and you will send them up at once?

00:16:05: Or is this through a series of years you set them up?

00:16:10: Yes, it's a series.

00:16:10: Yeah, we plan to improve our instruments.

00:16:13: Do you learn about that instrument?

00:16:15: Of course yeah and there are several launches, subsequent launches.

00:16:19: all right

00:16:19: Okay.

00:16:20: so first launch is next year And this will be launched through I would assume SpaceX then or who's the carrier?

00:16:27: Exactly

00:16:28: okay You have secured already your slot Or still negotiating.

00:16:34: What's current status around it.

00:16:36: Our partner the satellite provider has launch secured for us.

00:16:42: Okay,

00:16:43: and who's your partner there?

00:16:44: Who will

00:16:44: be... EnduraSat?

00:16:46: yeah we partnered with Endura-Sat to launch our first mission.

00:16:50: okay And do you know already when this is gonna happen

00:16:54: next year?

00:16:54: so we have June as our target in our backup slot is in October.

00:16:58: okay all right.

00:16:59: So you still a good year to prepare that.

00:17:02: so the satellite has been developed already or are you still working on it?

00:17:06: what's the status around

00:17:08: As a satellite, development is done.

00:17:10: But yeah now we're manufacturing our partner's manufactured platform on our side where we manufacture the flight version of the instrument.

00:17:19: Okay so you provide all the specs and requirements but another party is building it correct?

00:17:29: And who's building it?

00:17:30: I mean the instrument or the satellite?

00:17:32: Well tell me about those.

00:17:33: yes

00:17:34: The satellites were using the platform from EnduroSat that has Terral.

00:17:38: nine has been in space.

00:17:39: So they are say we match really well on performance that platform can achieve and we need On the instrument, yeah We part of the instrumental manufacture ourselves but a part of this when we factory with partners In Germany.

00:17:54: so all the all the hardware work is done in Germany.

00:17:57: Okay

00:17:58: Could you give us little bit an idea?

00:18:00: Of how much the costs our and whether I mean i would assume at The first satellite probably it's probably more costly than the twelfth one you're planning.

00:18:09: so do you see any economies of scales?

00:18:13: costs are lowering over time?

00:18:15: Very good question, I would say it's not as expensive.

00:18:18: As is was before.

00:18:20: its definitely at a cost off price for the satellite platform which goes down while performance or performances on platforms are growing For the twelve satellites, there will be a significant cut as non-recurrent works would not need it anymore.

00:18:40: Okay all right and so what has been the biggest challenge so far around?

00:18:47: launching your product?

00:18:48: Right!

00:18:49: So here I'd say every Earth observation startup meets the question, following questions you're preproduct.

00:18:59: you have this awesome idea.

00:19:01: You need to secure the funding for the satellite launch, but as your pre-products it needs to demonstrate a certain degree of traction and it's really hard to demonstrate that both customers and investors before they have a satellite in space.

00:19:17: so every satellite company meets these challenges.

00:19:24: Yeah, I'm very happy how we approached it with our airborne service.

00:19:29: We've adjusted the space instruments for aircraft and secured really great customers last year including UNIPER, including gas storages in Dakhryjian, including pipeline operators in Central Asia, customers on the Middle East who moved on campaigns Yeah, and continuing performing campaigns.

00:19:55: So yeah I think this has been the most challenging how to prepare strategy for the company security.

00:20:04: enough customers enough funding before your product is actually

00:20:10: out.

00:20:12: Tell us a bit more about your customers.

00:20:14: You just mentioned Uniper, what are you target audiences right now?

00:20:19: Your target customers...

00:20:20: We spend around one and half of our time on our sales team in the mid-market.

00:20:32: All gas infrastructure is in Europe, storage operators, pipeline operators, TSOs energy industry with the urgent pressure to prepare for the U-Methane regulation on one side and, uh... The second site losing money in the leakages.

00:20:50: Second tier large oil and gas customers that are very well aware of their problem already have certain expertise measuring methane while looking for cost effective and efficient solutions.

00:21:04: This is a cycle group Yeah.

00:21:06: And third group includes and industries outside of gas coal, landfills.

00:21:13: These are three buckets of customers that we're working with.

00:21:17: And who would you consider as your main competitor in this field?

00:21:22: Definitely GGSAT is one the most advanced space companies.

00:21:27: it's a pioneer in commercial missile monitoring.

00:21:30: There are fourteen satellites in orbit at this stage, with more than ten years being on the market.

00:21:37: I think Gigi said definitely prove that there is commercial case for space-based methane monitoring.

00:21:44: so it's definitely our biggest competitor.

00:21:46: So your competitors really other space based companies and competitors aren't drone or other company using airplanes or drones?

00:21:59: There are competitors definitely for both airborne and drone monitoring.

00:22:04: And the markets, for both more competitive than space.

00:22:09: we see our main product a keymore product coming from this place uh from five hundred kilometers away.

00:22:16: with these global coverage in this near real time features.

00:22:19: um yeah that's why We see the space competitors as the key competitors although they're much more competition.

00:22:28: both draw in the drones and airplane domain.

00:22:32: Okay, um... And you said a little early on our conversation that the main driving forces for your customers are regulation of one hand.

00:22:44: so they need to comply with existing laws but other than their incentivized by Not losing, I guess throughout the value chain.

00:22:56: So is this those two things coming together?

00:22:59: Is this already enough for you to ask the prices for your services?

00:23:05: you need to be sustainable on the financial side as well?

00:23:11: Definitely and these benchmark of like how much gas our clients are losing.

00:23:18: it's a perfect benchmark service should cost.

00:23:22: It definitely economically makes sense, you can add on top risks of non-action and not meeting the strategy commitments for decarbonization.

00:23:33: so energy sector has very ambitious goals in decarburizing by twenty thirty to twenty forty and these commitments would be met.

00:23:44: and meeting is one again decarbonization promises.

00:23:51: So economics risks of non-action penalties, it comes all together on top and that helps us navigate through right pricing.

00:24:01: And what is your pricing model?

00:24:03: Is like project based or isn't like a yearly annual subscription?

00:24:08: how do you do this?

00:24:09: Yeah exactly so we price our service with the kilometer square.

00:24:14: monitoring for satellite case is very straightforward.

00:24:20: We monitor certain area, it's measured in square kilometers and our customers are spending credits with one credit equal for one square kilometer of monitoring.

00:24:31: And yeah we apply the same logic to our airborne and drone monitoring With extra fee on top around manual parts over this service.

00:24:43: Okay your main clients In Germany, in the dark region and Europe or globally how do you target your clients right now?

00:24:53: Yeah.

00:24:55: We're a global company with campaigns on several continents where customers are spending from Australia to Chile.

00:25:04: most of them were in Europe but we've done a lot of campaigns in Asia.

00:25:10: Central Asia is our target for interest.

00:25:13: Middle East is targeted area

00:25:16: And methane leakages, the dictation is your core solution right now.

00:25:23: Are you considering as well to move into other market solutions?

00:25:28: Or it's really gas, methane... The main thing that would be focusing on for next couple of years.

00:25:35: So there a lot work with methane and its not going get less.

00:25:40: I think we see oil and gas production increasing in world to adapt our technology to other trace gases as well.

00:25:49: So, soon we're done with methane issue.

00:25:53: yeah... We can adjust the instruments for other trace gasses.

00:25:59: so

00:25:59: even if they are already in space or these twelve satellites in space you can you can adjust them to other gases?

00:26:08: Or does it require new satellites and new instruments?

00:26:12: So some trace gases would definitely require hardware adjustment.

00:26:17: In case of CO², we'd be able to see CO² as well with the constellation.

00:26:22: but if the trace gas is outside a spectral window that we're observing it will need to do modifications on the hardware side.

00:26:30: But soon you have this key instrument.

00:26:34: As soon as you figure out in design for your key instruments.

00:26:36: adjusting the spectrum windows not so complicated

00:26:39: Okay but adjusting the hardware in space would be probably rather difficult.

00:26:44: or you see technologies already emerging.

00:26:47: No, I mean our target is to have a hundred percent capacity booked on the constellation.

00:26:53: so in any case we'd need to launch new sensors?

00:26:56: Yeah okay

00:26:57: all right well thank you so much.

00:26:58: this has been quite an interesting journey into what you guys are doing Daria And I think it's a pretty good outlook.

00:27:09: Maybe one last question is, how do you manage your growth through just the liquidity?

00:27:17: You get in and this is bootstraps.

00:27:19: or Do you have also need of more venture capital funding?

00:27:25: Yeah we definitely go for CSA financing as soon as will launch our satellites.

00:27:31: yeah For growth for the sequence satellite launches We would be fundraising again.

00:27:38: So as you say, definitely the rest we'll see.

00:27:42: Okay

00:27:42: and can you already talk about how big the round is going to be?

00:27:46: How much money are looking

00:27:47: for?

00:27:48: Yeah so currently they're preparing a couple of cool opportunities to deploy sensors available and were looking at different options

00:27:56: And other any regulatory let's say constraints which really could stop or slow your growth?

00:28:07: Or is the regulatory environment totally in favor of what you are doing.

00:28:12: Good question, I would say that in terms of environmental protection regulations definitely supporting our business case like we're not dependent on it but there's definitely incoming winds for us Yeah, but we try and build the business independent from the regulation.

00:28:32: So yeah...

00:28:33: All right Daria well thank you so much!

00:28:35: And uh..yeah We really wish a lot of luck with your first launch next year and in the meantime You keep on going with your airborne services?

00:28:47: Hopefully talk to you The latest sometime next year when Your first satellite has been successfully launched.

00:28:54: Thank you so Much!

00:28:59: Time to surface.

00:29:01: If you

00:29:02: enjoyed this

00:29:02: episode, we'd be grateful for a rating or subscription!

00:29:06: This series is produced by

00:29:08: DWR Eco

00:29:09: in cooperation with Mission Homebound.

00:29:11: To go deeper or connect with our guests

00:29:13: visit us at

00:29:19: dwr-eco.com.