00:00:05:

00:00:22: I'm very happy to do another episode of the deep dive clean tech here.

00:00:26: Today, we will do it in English again and a very much welcome.

00:00:30: Kirk Wilkes is president and CEO of Mann & Hummel.

00:00:33: Thank you for the opportunity to talk today.

00:00:35: I'm looking forward to it,

00:00:37: right?

00:00:37: And maybe we should start right in the beginning because You are the president CEO of a German originated company.

00:00:45: Maybe you can tell us infuse sentence what your guys is doing.

00:00:49: Sure so modern humble art our vision as leadership infiltration and we really bring that across many segments.

00:00:56: We're traditionally born out of the transportation industry but today we release supply and stand for solutions for clean air, clean water, clean mobility and clean industry.

00:01:08: We are active in technical solutions across the range of verticals.

00:01:13: as we're talking today I think about clean tech.

00:01:15: you know maybe

00:01:20: Yes, and maybe also let's talk right at the beginning.

00:01:23: You have joined Mann & Hummel in I think nineteen ninety-eight if we had done a research ride And twenty two years later you've became well The first American to let this family owned German company.

00:01:37: how did this?

00:01:39: Yeah evolved?

00:01:40: That's an interesting question.

00:01:42: so first of all yes i did join April nine eight joined a startup, German start-up.

00:01:48: In fact though in nineteen ninety eight.

00:01:50: I don't think the word start up was used but that would be my best explanation.

00:01:54: you know modern Hummel is celebrating our eighty fifth anniversary this year and um i think one of the things to celebrate is really the diversity of our international team.

00:02:05: so while i did start uh...in the u.s.. in developing their business with modern hummel many years ago today and privileged to be part of our leadership team, which is really comprised of an incredibly international and diverse team.

00:02:21: So yes we are probably still considered a German Mittelstandt but in fact you know as the CEO being American... Our COO is Hungarian-Romanian or CFO-German.

00:02:33: We have the president of one of our transportation divisions as Chinese many multinational leaders, male and female.

00:02:43: And I think it's a sign of the strength not only our internationalization after eighty-five years but Our commitment to bringing the best talent.

00:02:52: Absolutely.

00:02:53: twenty two years ago It was probably not just start up as you said because Total Mannen-Hommel is eighty five years old, correct this year.

00:03:04: And in what areas technically not just clean take but kind of products and geographies are you involved?

00:03:12: Sure yeah.

00:03:13: to clarify that statement on the US when I started we were beginning our work there so thats why i referred it as a U.S maybe startup But we're active in terms of filtration and the transportation space areas, liquid and air filtration.

00:03:28: Hydraulic filtration for passenger car as well as heavy duty and industrial applications.

00:03:34: In HVAC space.

00:03:36: We provide a host products from HEPA filtration to chemical filtration.

00:03:43: we call molecular filtration for ranges of industries, everything from clean rooms to homes in the United States which are predominantly heated by airflow rather than a different type system.

00:04:00: In water and membrane space there were active ultrafiltration reverse osmosis desalination wastewater, these are areas where we're actively developing solutions today.

00:04:12: Today will focus obviously on the clean tech aspects and a bit more of filtration part your business.

00:04:19: but filtration is very invisible product category right?

00:04:24: So nobody thinks probably about it.

00:04:28: until something breaks an engine fails, maybe the water supply fails.

00:04:35: So how do you sell this product which always needs to be very reliable but only comes to the market as a visible products if there is some urgency around it?

00:04:46: Yeah that's great question.

00:04:48: we often have industry talks where protection of the invisible force of filtration.

00:04:57: So if you think about it, water probably is the most visible when you taste water.

00:05:02: It's pretty obvious I think to our taste buds whether there Is a potential issue or not?

00:05:08: This can be solved with a host of applications.

00:05:11: But When You Think About Air we spend ninety percent Of Our Time indoors.

00:05:16: Add To That The Amount Of Time.

00:05:17: We're In A Vehicle Which You Could Argue Also As An Enclosed Environment And you know, it's really not visible to us the different types of particles that are entering our lungs through our nose until we see maybe prolonged health issues coming from high concentrations of fine dust and others.

00:05:37: So... We use a lot data at a lot information from the different standards put forward in industry ability to separate the useful from harmful which is in fact our mission, it's very relevant for today.

00:05:57: And clean water also important not just for us as humans but also technical environments like data centers that are being built.

00:06:08: so what kind of purity you need there?

00:06:10: What's the filtration your using on that market?

00:06:14: and how is current growth in AI market segment really driving a business

00:06:20: Sure.

00:06:21: AI and data centers represent a significant opportunity to really address the idea of clean industry, not only from the particle contamination both through air and liquids but also in the total cost of ownership.

00:06:39: so if we start with the air side what we know is that inside of a data center from what we'd say maybe were small server rooms, twenty years ago to today very large data centers is how to manage the heat.

00:06:58: And so one of the ways to do that um...is through air management.

00:07:02: in addition too uh..that's also controlling the particle contamination That is inherent In any type of an airflow environment.

00:07:11: So We've brought forward pretty interesting solutions everything from the corrosive gases that might help or support the longevity of circuit boards to management in particular matter.

00:07:26: That could potentially create a longer-term maintenance problem, but also in way energy performance and amount of air pushed through filter is done an optimal.

00:07:38: So we know that nearly forty percent of all the data center energy goes into managing heat.

00:07:43: And a big part to that is, it's movement air or potentially coolant through different distribution channels.

00:07:51: so for us working with our customers really try and create balance where provide very good products have low pressure drop high flow but also can capture a higher amounts are very fine particles.

00:08:06: On the coolant side, they're also the same challenges persist.

00:08:10: So yes there is more and more active use of treated water.

00:08:15: then it's important that that waters treated because untreated water can lead to pH imbalances organic matter clogging systems or premature damage to infrastructure.

00:08:26: so for that we've developed very good solutions using reverse osmotus ultra filtration nano-filtration technologies in coordination with each other to make sure that those liquid streams provide then really clean environments for the equipment to run and run for long periods of time.

00:08:46: What other markets are you in besides off serving the data center market?

00:08:51: You would see us in hospital rooms, so we're active into development of clean air in positive pressure operating theaters or commercial industrial facilities where See typical office environments where there's airflow management used.

00:09:10: You would see us in the development of clean rooms, so we have a very strong company in China that produces fan filter units both for local and international markets.

00:09:21: Where were developing complete systems.

00:09:24: We provide the HEPA filtration That will go into the development to the clean room Semiconductor facilities And scale all over the world.

00:09:35: You'd see us in the residential space.

00:09:36: So, in North America we're very active again.

00:09:39: as I mentioned earlier The large majority of homes In the United States are heated through forced air and Of course that air requires a filtration with its own unique need And fact.

00:09:51: there's a significant challenge in the united states right now With the recyclability effort of these products.

00:09:57: about We estimate About three billion residential filters in the US Are sent to landfills every year.

00:10:03: We know that pleated filters take twenty-five to fifty years to decompose where fiberglass filtration filters, which are a big part of the market could take up to one hundred years.

00:10:13: So as states face landfill capacity and challenges in legislative requirements we're actively also working with new materials to make sure that uh...we can provide sustainability improvements for our customers.

00:10:27: then that circular economy view.

00:10:31: So

00:10:31: across all these industries, what are the main drivers of driving your return?

00:10:38: And how much can you actually use a product as let's say platform products serving different industries?

00:10:45: or how diverse is your product line and to serve all of this different markets?

00:10:51: Great question.

00:10:52: So, you know when we think about a filter and you define what means the system for that filter?

00:10:58: The heart of that filter ultimately is the media.

00:11:02: their modern Hummel has made significant investments not only in synthetic medias for air filtration but also in membrane development because We believe to solve the core of the technical challenge it's done at really at the interface of the media, how that media then is translated into an actual filter via that pleated or rolled.

00:11:22: Now this obviously is dependent on the application.

00:11:24: so for us it's really understanding technology to provide best pressure drop, highest level efficiency as well as capacity and finding balance we call filtration triangle.

00:11:42: Ultimately, we're driving for a total cost of ownership solution.

00:11:46: So again the function or the filter itself is to separate the useful from harmful.

00:11:52: in the context of the filter it self and its application of removing particles are capturing certain contaminants but also in the useful form the harmful and ability be most efficient use that filter.

00:12:06: as I stated earlier For a filter to perform it requires a certain amount of energy To push either fluid or air through that filter and we want to make sure That our media's Perform at the highest level.

00:12:19: they give those customers The ability then to reduce their energy consumption for instance in In the use of those filters.

00:12:27: And maybe walk us through a bit more around what you just described very generally Around.

00:12:32: yet, did he separate?

00:12:34: Good from the harm.

00:12:35: So What is the harmful?

00:12:38: And this is probably different for a different use cases.

00:12:40: But can you give us, let's say in different categories what kind of harmful substances are actually helping to get separated from the environment?

00:12:51: Sure!

00:12:51: So if we start with air filtration... Of course it finds dust particles.

00:12:56: so we want make sure that we're removing particles and measure those by size depending on application level of filtration required up to a HEPA system, then can reduce finer and finer particles.

00:13:11: But not only that.

00:13:12: molecular filtration allows us also protect against corrosive gases And these are gasses could be harmful in environmental applications.

00:13:23: so we have customers off-highway space that require for their cabins within farming fields to protect against certain pesticides.

00:13:33: So We Have Chemical Filters For That wrapped around HEPA filtration, to within industrial applications where we know those gases could prematurely age the life of equipment.

00:13:45: In the water filtration side as I mentioned earlier it's about making sure we're capturing organic matter and certain chemicals.

00:13:55: so PFAS is also an issue that we've been working on developing Filters for our customers that allow them through the use of our technology to capture certain amounts of PFAS within water streams.

00:14:08: For instance, these are just some examples Of the different matters particular matters that the filter itself is responsible too to capture.

00:14:18: So you just mentioned PFAS.

00:14:20: maybe tell the audience what's so critical?

00:14:23: What would our PFAS and What's so critical about that?

00:14:26: And maybe it is a follow-up question as well, which of course you are helping to filter and remove PFAS from water for example.

00:14:36: But some of the filtration technologies itself also built from PFAS.

00:14:43: this strange tradeoff here right

00:14:46: Yes!

00:14:46: That's offcourse the large industry challenge.

00:14:48: So PFAS its I think often referred to as a forever chemical.

00:14:53: And these are chemicals that do have very specific and value added use in the development of certain industrial applications within filtration space for sure, but also many others.

00:15:05: at the same time those chemicals have found their way into certain environmental aspects then potentially could harm us.

00:15:13: so we're working with our own products too.

00:15:16: make sure products.

00:15:20: So as an example, we have a an aquedine module.

00:15:24: it's a reverse osmosis module where we've developed a flooring free hollow fiber membrane that allows us in this case primarily for wastewater sorry not for reverse osmosis allows to meet the customer needs and so we found a solution In other areas For air management for instance.

00:15:42: We had been active since twenty-twenty four And looking for solutions but This is taking A little bit longer.

00:15:48: We know that not all filter media, we build requires PFAS.

00:15:54: So many of the synthetic non-wovens today, non impregnated gas fiber media were already technically PFAS free but others products that we make do require it and the test show that element that PFAS elements within the filter itself allows us to perform filtration needs.

00:16:17: We do know there are further movements to drive restrictions, and we know those restrictions will be time-based.

00:16:23: And working with the authorities in the regions that were doing business with make sure the transition timeline allows us an opportunity to innovate solutions.

00:16:35: some cases have been successful on other areas still developing.

00:16:39: So, in practical you say that there is an alternative also for you and the industry to replace PFAS.

00:16:48: In total or do we face a future where we need this compromise?

00:16:54: That PFAS will always be part of some sort of product

00:16:57: mix?

00:16:58: So there are applications today where we require the use of these chemicals to develop filtration media and membranes that, uh...we do not have a replacement for.

00:17:08: We're working on solutions for this And-and we need time Uh..to continue to innovate To Do That.

00:17:13: I believe with Time we Have High Probability in Certain Applications Define Solutions In Others.

00:17:19: Yeah!

00:17:19: i think were quite away away.

00:17:21: so it's important as we move towards restriction forever chemicals that we do it on a timeline.

00:17:28: That allows us to continue to provide the products in these areas, that provide other sustainable benefits.

00:17:36: as I mentioned earlier you know some of our products today.

00:17:39: We've already been active and have found solutions.

00:17:42: so It's a step by step process And one that i don't think happens overnight.

00:17:50: Groups that we work with in the different governments around the world.

00:17:53: They see this and therefore some of those timelines, you know have worked well with industry.

00:17:59: others We're still working with Those government to make sure they understand the trade-offs.

00:18:04: so how do you deal with it?

00:18:06: tension?

00:18:07: And maybe there's just too negatively framed.

00:18:09: now attention but let say put a trade off as he said yourself between dead.

00:18:14: Of course, you guys are involved in environmental technologies.

00:18:18: You make your business and probably all of vision is around saving the environment making it better on one hand.

00:18:26: On other hands we have regulations helping as well down-the road just to forbid some very critical chemicals.

00:18:34: All of a sudden your market would vanish because there's no filtration needed.

00:18:40: Sure This

00:18:41: is an extreme of course, but it's just what you

00:18:44: open up.

00:18:45: It's a interesting scenario You know when you think about the regulation itself Of court.

00:18:51: first in terms of modern Hummel?

00:18:52: What you have to understand?

00:18:53: filtration Init of its core as both and enabler and a contributor.

00:18:58: so we in The production of our products We have to be socially responsible.

00:19:03: we have to follow regulations.

00:19:04: So therefore we take great care To make sure were innovating solutions that are sustainable.

00:19:10: As I mentioned earlier, some of those are moving on a faster timeline than others.

00:19:15: But also as a contributor to the environment we provide products that also help our customers separate useful from harmful and in some cases that harmful is regulated.

00:19:26: but don't wait for regulations.

00:19:29: We proactively develop alternatives across the spectrum.

00:19:34: If you think about PFAS and specifically one element which is PVDF You know, this is an element that specifically in Europe has classified as a PFOS material.

00:19:46: And as they plan to restrict further use of that and the future albeit with a generous transition timeline it's important for us to stay ahead of it.

00:19:56: so we don't take the topic as must do because of regulation For sure.

00:20:02: We Do It Because its In The Nature Of Filtration A Sustainable Course that the ultimate result of our work is not only in the elimination or filtration of these harmful chemicals through the enablement of our filter, but also and the function of that filter itself.

00:20:19: If it's an air filter again as I mentioned to make sure we're capturing the harmful particles are gases that could potentially impact us from a health perspective.

00:20:28: Yes, and I would assume as you said earlier as well that this market segment around filtration is growing anyway on a global scale but probably also in Europe.

00:20:39: And will you grow organically here?

00:20:44: or are you thinking about acquiring some businesses of pipelines?

00:20:49: So Monodomal has been very active in recent years and actually acquiring businesses in the life sciences space.

00:20:55: And now we're on a good organic growth path with those business, but I think as you think about shifting landscape opportunities or regulatory requirements more partnerships are going to be required not only within our customer base, but also within the industry universities at looking for partners investing in startups.

00:21:22: Looking for new technologies that we think would be complementary to us.

00:21:27: so We're active across the spectrum and I think you have to be In today's world.

00:21:33: if you think about the future And trying this scenario plan all of the different environmental aspects The decoupling regulatory requirements, the changing of trade policies.

00:21:45: To be relevant as an international supplier or customer to our customers then I think you have to be incredibly flexible and understand that it's only through partnerships, editability a quick response to changes we can be successful

00:22:01: in.

00:22:02: So taking your growth ambition on one hand And the regulatory side On the other hand will talk previously about What is the one thing, or maybe a few things.

00:22:12: you see that regulators consistently really get wrong about filtration which could really unlock the market for you guys?

00:22:21: You know I don't know if wrong is the right word.

00:22:24: It's really the timelines that stand behind regulations to make sure there are adequate time to innovate solutions where current solution doesn't exist.

00:22:33: so to ban PFAS in and of itself is logical as a human who recognizes that this chemical can be harmful that the transition plans or the transition periods have the appropriate amount of time.

00:22:58: And then behind that, we have the inappropriate amount of funding as well as partnerships with universities and other industry forums to make sure you're bringing your best knowledge in order to solve this problem.

00:23:11: It's a combination for all those who in the end solved the right question which is how do we make our environment safer?

00:23:20: So I would argue it's really just about how well we're coordinating and how present we are in each of those places.

00:23:26: And then ultimately, what are we doing to provide that from a total cost-of-ownership to our end customer who uses this filter for purpose?

00:23:36: In order to meet their specific needs...

00:23:39: Taking these timelines into consideration on the policy side but keeps you up at night running?

00:23:46: your business is truly global by now Is it pretty?

00:23:50: maybe also because there are so many different legislations in place globally and It would help just to have a much more harmonized Well global marketplace around these products.

00:24:04: Yeah, I mean of course you know as A business in the space working with one regulation With one set of parameters is preferred.

00:24:11: but this isn't realistic.

00:24:13: we know You know The world is a big place in which we operate?

00:24:17: And so To the extent we can share information with different regulatory and agencies.

00:24:23: We do this where were very active in Different trade associations, and technical associations making sure that?

00:24:32: We have a seat at the table for those discussions.

00:24:35: So that's one way to help Of course communicating via our customers as well.

00:24:40: I mean they also ask of us and expect of us certain sustainability commitments.

00:24:45: So making sure we're following their timeline, this is another in terms of keeping me awake?

00:24:51: No I would say it's exciting times mean were solving technical solutions for the betterment society And we are asking to increase the speed at which do that.

00:25:03: You know there are certain countries or regions doing much better than others so you have learn from them.

00:25:10: And here again, Monon Homo has a unique advantage.

00:25:12: We are truly an international company with over eighty locations around the world and so With our leadership team spread out into these different regions we can really bring these diverse perspectives to market much faster than I believe our competition.

00:25:28: So exciting times indeed From different perspectives, you can say that.

00:25:34: But if we look on yourself and the company how would you define success in your role?

00:25:40: And for a company I don't know four twenty-twenty eight four twenty thirty.

00:25:45: What are current objectives of what they're saying?

00:25:48: but How do you define Success For Yourself?

00:25:52: you know, success starts with our customer.

00:25:54: So we have to understand that they're the heart of everything we do.

00:25:57: so it's really about making sure we provide case studies real-time and show that our products make a difference not only for their technical challenge but for their ability to run their business.

00:26:10: We do a number of case studies And I can give you a couple examples.

00:26:14: You know?

00:26:17: provided them an optimized filter, what we call our thin line.

00:26:21: It's a air filtration or air filter.

00:26:24: where were able to help them document.

00:26:26: I think it was about one hundred and sixty-two thousand US dollars of annual savings through the optimization that filter by eliminating fourteen thousand four hundred filters.

00:26:36: so you'd say okay well your selling filters to eliminate filters is interesting challenge but in end ya know want make sure increase change intervals because we understand to change a filter requires labor.

00:26:49: So in this case, the customer told us they saved over eighty thousand dollars a year and in the reduction of labor that it takes to change those filters.

00:26:57: land disposal costs we reduced their their land disposal of the used filters by twenty two thousand.

00:27:02: um We reduced at the same time or rather we increase sorry At the same Time.

00:27:08: uh The performance.

00:27:09: so In this case?

00:27:10: We didn't have To sacrifice in This solution.

00:27:12: we actually increased the customers particle penetration By fifty percent.

00:27:17: you can deliver everything that they're asking for.

00:27:20: It's just that partnership, so for us success in twenty-twenty eight or twenty thirty.

00:27:25: it is a story of growth and its one where we are falling in love with our customers problems not fallin' in Love With Our Solutions and solving those Problems With Our Solution.

00:27:38: And We Are Doing This From China to Europe To North America.

00:27:46: What are their pain points?

00:27:48: How can we solve them?

00:27:49: and from a total cost of ownership, how do we not ask them to sacrifice performance over costs or quality overtime.

00:27:58: And this is very intimate relationship that happens with every customer.

00:28:05: So, Kurok in the beginning of our discussion we talked about data centers.

00:28:09: Can you give us a bit more specifics?

00:28:11: maybe a case study around user filtration and data centers as well?

00:28:16: Sure!

00:28:17: We recently released new product recalling Pro Pocket DC Elite in United States.

00:28:24: what this product does is it allows to reduce initial resistance.

00:28:31: Support of that allows us to reduce the energy consumption That is required in order to move the air through that filter.

00:28:38: So we have a customer.

00:28:40: We're working with that reported back to us, they were able With our filter To reduce nearly two million kilowatts per year.

00:28:48: This helped them achieve an annual savings about two hundred and sixty five thousand US dollars.

00:28:54: At the same time, the lower resistance of the filter itself allowed then client to remove an entire pleated pre-filter stage um...of construction.

00:29:03: Also than further eliminating and additional hundred sixty five thousand in annual costs.

00:29:08: so I think it's important when we think about case studies like this to recognize that again the filter in and out its self It has a responsibility capture uh..the take or from the useful harmful.

00:29:21: But at the same time, we have a responsibility that the use of that filter is efficient.

00:29:25: So with this one case study, the energy reduction alone avoided approximately one thousand three hundred ninety six metric tons of CO two per year.

00:29:36: so also helping that customer move towards their net zero goals?

00:29:40: Absolutely great example.

00:29:42: What does the question you never really get asked by journalists or podcasts like myself which I would love to answer

00:29:50: You know, I think in the end it's about just emphasizing again how the purpose.

00:29:57: So when you think about modern Hummel as an eighty-five year old family owned company...I still think that industry thinks of us to some degree as automotive but this is so not the case.

00:30:11: Again we're really truly active and solving significant challenges in many verticals, and this space specifically in clean tech.

00:30:21: As we started with data centers as one example to again hospital theaters too industrial equipment use two managing the recyclability challenges making sure that our own carbon footprint is improved every year.

00:30:39: I would like very clearly stated or known that Monon Hummel stands as a filtration company built on a purpose.

00:30:48: And, and that purpose really is the separation of the useful from the harmful...and behind that-the industries we're in.

00:30:56: they are direct result to those customers seeing us value.

00:31:03: That asks us come into table help solve their problem.

00:31:07: Thank you so much.

00:31:08: I really like this catchphrase about separating the harmful from the useful, another one is probably... You also use clean-the-things that can't be seen.

00:31:21: So it's really both a vision and your last statement.

00:31:25: So thank you for your personal engagement For what guys are doing as team obviously.

00:31:30: And uh.. What do we have here?

00:31:36: It

00:31:37: was nice to meet you.

00:31:37: Thank your international clean-tag consultancy for market and business strategies, policy PR & communications.